My Male Ancestors – Birth, Death, and Age at Death

Brown/Montran Research
Roberts/Barnes Research

One of the reasons that I enjoy Randy Seaver’s blog, Genea-Musings is that he regularly makes me realize the missing branches I have in my tree leaves have lots more to do on my tree.  His recent “Saturday Night Genealogy Fun” asked folks to look at their tree and determine the age of death for their male ancestors. (He had done a similar thing for female ancestors the week before.)

Using Heredis, it is really simple to generate such a report. I clicked on myself, then clicked on Documents/Ancestor Report and the system generated the data. Then I went to Report Export, I selected Excel from several options.  After the information exported, the Excel spreadsheet opened automatically.

Because the ahnentafel numbers for the individuals are exported, it is easy to select just the male ancestors by deleting all of the odd numbers. I immediately saw that my 3rd great-grandfather, Enoch Mannin, lived the longest – 88 years. The ancestor who died the earliest was my great-grandfather Hugh Ellis Roberts, who died at an extremely young 24 years of age.

Next, I began seeing my gaps.  I have three people with a range of dates for their life.  For example, my great-grandfather John F. Montran was born sometime between 1860 and 1875 and died sometime before 1911. So, he could have died at 35 or died at 51 years or anywhere in between; I don’t know.

Then, I realized I have six ancestors for whom I have no death dates. More work.

Finally, I realized I have nine ancestors in the past five generations that I know nothing about.  No names, let alone birth or death dates. So, Randy’s challenge reminded me of how much more work I still have to do. But the good news is that I have 11 of my male ancestors identified as to their age at death. Even better, I have eight more this year than I would have had last year (all of my Roberts line.).  I even have one more than I would have had last week, So things are definitely looking up.

Chart of Male Ancestors, Dates of Birth and Death

Ahn. #
Surname
Birth Date
Death Date
Age at Death
Father
2
Hugh Eugene  Roberts
° 9/1926
† 27/3/1997
70
Grandfathers
4
Bert Allen  Roberts
° 7/9/1903
† 1/5/1949
45
6
Richard Earl  Brown
° 14/9/1903
† 19/1/1990
86
Great-Grandfathers
8
Hugh Ellis  Roberts
° 2/7/1884
† 30/8/1908
24
10
Joel Clinton Barnes
° 23/6/1857
† 30/6/1921
64
12
Arthur Durwood  Brown
° ~ 1864
† 27/8/1928
~ 64
14
John F  Montran
° <> 1860 & 1875
† < 1911
< 35
2nd Great-Grandfathers
16
Asa Ellis Roberts
° 28/2/1835
† 8/10/1887
52
18
Samuel Vaden Scott
° 1860
† 1931
71
20
Nelson Barnes
° 24/3/1816
† 21/2/1884
67
22
Nimrod Lister
° <> 1824 & 1827
† < 1909
< 82
24
William Henry Brown
° 1842
26
John William  Manning
° ~ 1845
† 25/4/1888
~ 43
28
Unknown (Montran)
30
Franklin E  Barber
° 10/1836
† 7/4/1917
80
Third Great-Grandfathers
32
John Calvin Roberts
° 3/3/1795
† 4/1873
78
34
Unknown Marshall
36
William H. Scott
38
Adrico J. Haley
40
Unknown (Barnes)
42
Unknown
44
Unknown (Lister)
46
Unknown
48
Barney Brown
° ~ 1814
† <> 1860 & 1870
<> 46 & 55
50
William M  Sanford
° ~ 1822
52
Enoch  Mannin
° 1819
† 7/4/1907
88
54
Unknown
56
Unknown (Montran)
58
Unknown
60
Unknown (Barber)
62
Stephen  Blackhurst
° ~ 1804
† 24/12/1869
~ 65
———-  DISCLAIMER  ———-

 

Sarah H Blackhurst Barber (1848-unk) – My Most Recent Immigrant Ancestor

Saturday Night Genealogy Fun

Montran/Barber/Blackhurst

Sarah B Blackhurst is my most recent immigrant ancestor. Sarah was born in England, most likely in Sheffield, Yorkshire, about 1848 (I think Dec 1847). I use the 1900 Census for the basis of birthdates because it indicates the month and year of a person’s birth in addition to his or her age. In Sarah’s case, the Census reports her birth as Dec 1867 but her age as 42, which would place her as born in 1857[i]. Consequently, I only pull the month of her birth from the 1900 Census. I then use the 1850 Census, in which she is two years old, and derive a  birth date of December 1847[ii].

The 1920 Census shows Sarah Blackhurst Barber’s arrival in 1850.
The 1850 Census also indicates that she was born in England and living in Detroit at the age 2 indicating an arrival before June 1850.  Additionally, the 1920 Census indicates the date of her arrival as 1850[iii], so, I’m fairly sure of that she arrived in 1850.  I haven’t found the family arriving in the United States in any immigration documents, so far but will continue searching.
Seventy-year-old Sarah is enumerated in the 1920 Census living in Manhattan, New York, New York[iv]. I have been unsuccessful finding a death record for Sarah thus far.

Further Action:

Find Sarah and family in immigration documents.

Endnotes

[i] 1900 Census (National Archives and Records Administration), Ancestry, http://www.Ancestry.com, Year: 1900; Census Place: Detroit Ward 4, Wayne, Michigan; Roll: T623_748; Page: 13B; Enumeration District: 36.
[ii] 1850 United States Federal Census, Family Search, Stephen Blackhurst – Auburn county, ward 4, Cayuga, New York, United States; citing family 1389, NARA microfilm publication M432 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.). Accessed 24 November 2015. https://beta.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCT2-GRX.
[iii] 1920 Census, Ancestry, http://www.Ancestry.com, Manhattan Assembly District 13, New York, New York; Roll: T625_1209; Page: 24A; Enumeration District: 958;
[iv] 1920 Census, Ancestry, http://www.Ancestry.com, Manhattan Assembly District 13, New York, New York; Roll: T625_1209; Page: 24A; Enumeration District: 958; Image:.
Randall J. Seaver, in his blog Genea-Musings, suggested this topic.

————-  DISCLAIMER  ————-

My DNA Projects – 1 October 2014

Where I am at with my various DNA Projects, October 1st, 2014.

Ancestry.Com

I was mightily disappointed when Ancestry quit support for their Y-DNA testing. I was surprised to see that my results and other information was still on Ancestry, but, of course, there were no new matches. 
My Y-DNA Lineage from Ancestry.Com
My plan to follow my closest DNA match from Ancestry up five generations and back down five generations didn’t yield any potential candidates for the “baby daddy.”  So, without any further Y-DNA matches possible through Ancestry it appears that further looking into that line is not going to be fruitful.

My Wife’s Y-DNA – Ancestry

My wife’s brother’s Ancestry Y-DNA test results are in the same state. No new matches because Ancestry has stopped supporting Y-DNA.  Another promising tool that has ended in a dead end.  
I definitely feel that I wasted some money with Ancestry on their Y-DNA tests.  As such, I will probably never recommend Ancestry DNA Testing of any kind because of my bad experience with due to their decision to stop support of  Y-DNA testing.  

Family Tree DNA

My haplogroup’s (R1b) migration from Family Tree DNA
My closest hit to my DNA (89% likelihood a common ancestor in 8 generations) still hasn’t answered. So, I emailed him again.  I did do a search for him on line and found a person with his name died a couple years ago.  Not looking good for the home team.  The email address for him in Family Tree DNA is pointing to another person, so it is still possible that I will be able to connect with a relative of his and possibly share information.  We will see. 
Again, no new connections on Family Tree DNA.
I did not do an  upgrade kit for my brother-in-law so there is nothing about any connections to him in Family Tree DNA.

My Friend T-Roy
I’ve been helping a friend, T-Roy, with his genealogy.  In particular his paternal side is lost.  We know precious little regarding his grandfather and nothing before that. A search for his great grandparents has yielded several potential candidates, however, none are clear.  I suggested that a Y-DNA test might help us find someone who is related and then be able to connect the dots from the potential candidates.  We’ll see.

My Autosomal Results

Ancestry.Com

There was a new “3rd” cousin identified on Ancestry.  Because Ancestry doesn’t tell you anything about the match I have no idea if the match is on my mother’s line or my unknown paternal line. The individual, who is now my closest atDNA match didn’t relate their DNA to a tree so I have no idea about potential surnames.  I emailed the individual and hopefully she will share her tree and other information. There were several other new matches, however, they were all 4th cousin and greater.  I looked at any family trees that they have and didn’t see anything of interest.

23 & Me

23 and Me has been my most
successful DNA testing company that I have used so far. There are several
reasons for that. First, and foremost, I had both my mother and my DNA Tests
submitted to 23 & Me. That is a big help in determining where matches come
from. My initial plan was to use the tests to be able to discriminate matches
from my unknown father’s side from my known mother’s side of the family.

My mother’s matches:

Looking at my mother’s matches,
the closest match (excluding me) is Ronald M. with 2.3% Shared and 11 segments
in common. I was able to contact the individual and after comparing trees,
found that my mother and Ronald are second cousins, once removed. They share common
ancestors with my mom’s great grandparents (Henry & Marian (Sanford)
Brown).
The next closest match to my
mother is Rick C. He and my mom share 1.61% and 10 segments. He responded to
some queries and we quickly determined his is a 1st cousin, twice
removed, from my mother. Their common ancestors are my mom’s grandparents
(Arthur D & Mary (Manning) Brown).
The 3rd closest match
is to M. C. this match was really great as it expanded our understand of a line
and broke through a “brick wall.” A review of M. C.’s tree yielded a surname
match on Blackhurst. Further investigation showed that M. C.’s ancestor, William
Stephen Blackhurst, had a sibling named Sarah who was born about the same date
as my mother’s grandmother. Another of the siblings and the father of William
and Sarah died in the same city, Albion, MI, that our Sarah lived. Further
correlation showed me that their William was, indeed, the sibling of our Sarah
and that through this connection we were able to extend the line back another
generation to our common ancestors, Stephen and Fanny (Taylor) Blackhurst. 
My Ancestry Composition per 23 and Me

My matches:

On my paternal side, matches to me and not my
mother, are much less interesting. The closest match is a male with whom I
share only four segments (.91%). I sent him an introduction but he hasn’t
responded. I’ve sent a few other individuals introductions and received no
responses from most of them. The few that have responded I have looked at their
trees, but haven’t found anything of particular interest. When less than 1%
matches, investing much time isn’t very helpful.

My Aunt:

I recently sent a DNA kit to my half aunt (my
mother’s half sister). In a phone call last week, she indicated that she
received the kit and registered it. She said she’d have it in the mail later in
the week. They take several weeks to process so that should be interesting. With
some luck, she will have received some different segment from my mother and we
can those differences to potentially find other relatives.

GEDMatch.Com

As I write this GEDMatch.com website is
down.  This free site has a lot of
potential and is the only place that I know if that allows you to submit your
DNA results from multiple sites.  It is
an unaffiliated, volunteer, website and is in need of donations to maintain its
operation.  If you use it, please donate
to them so they can keep the site in operation.
  
They give instructions on how to export your
autosomal DNA test results from Ancestry.ComFamily Tree DNA, and 23&Me and
you import the results into their system. Although their takes a while to process
your data and populate into their system, don’t complain about the speed.  Again, did I say donate? 

The X Chromosome

I’ve recently been hearing a lot about X
chromosome matching.  This has really
gotten me excited and rejuvenated regarding using DNA as a method to find
ancestors.
I’m looking forward to using the GEDMatch
system to look at the X chromosome matches for my mom and my aunt (when her
results are received).  Because one of
the X chromosomes comes  from the mother
and one from the father, having both my mother and her half sister’s X results
will yield a clear look at their father’s (Clifford) X marker.  My mother and my aunt should match the X
completely because the X chromosome is passed down from a person’s father
relatively unchanged.  Thus, by testing
two females with the same father we can basically jump a generation.  Their father, Clifford, received his X from
his mother, Mary Elizabeth Manning which is a mix of her parents, approximately
50% from each.  Mary received her two X
chromosomes from each parent so Clifford has a 50-50 chance to have received
his X from his grandfather (John William Manning) and 50-50 chance from his
grandmother (Eliza Fannin). His grandfather received his X from his great
grandmother (Minerva Tolliver Mannin). If, as family legend says, Minerva was full-blooded
Cherokee, Because Clifford whould have received about 50% of his X DNA from
Minerva, we should be able to see some markers that are in common with Cherokee
people if she was, in fact, Cherokee. The other great thing about this test is
that Clifford should have also received about 25% of his X from Eliza’s parents
both of whom are unknown. It certainly has the potential to open up a whole new
area of investigation.
Using the X isn’t as clearly defining as using
the Y chromosome but it clearly can yield more definitive results than the other
22 chromosomes typically do. I am very excited about pursuing this direction. One of the really cool things about your X Chromosome inheritance is that the potential surnames follow a really clear pattern. In my case the surnames of interest are:

Brown, 
Montran, 
Mannin(g), 
Barber, 
Fannin, 
Blackhurst, 
Toliver, 
Taylor, 
Cochron. 

Conclusion

DNA is a helpful tool. It has the potential to break down some brick walls, as it did for my Blackhurst tree. However, it is not likely to magically solve a problem or give answers to difficult questions.
There are a number of utilities that can help understand the matches I’ll look at them in a future blog posting. In the meantime, I’ll continue my searching in this area.

————Disclaimer ————-

Bio – Ida Mae Barber (1874-1953)

52 Ancestors #11 – Ida Mae Barber (Montran) (Fisher)
(Holdsworth) (Knight) (1874-1953)

When I decided to look at Ida Mae’s life I realized that my
source work regarding Ida Mae was woefully inadequate.  Most of the work I did regarding Ida Mae was was done several years ago and I wasn’t as good about creating source
records that were complete and stood on their own. Some of the source citations were entirely in
my Family Tree Maker for Mac and were corrupted during various upgrades (FTM 4
Mac 2 to FTM 4 Mac 3 was particularly painful).
I decided to redo everything regarding Ida, that is to say,
pull together my physical copies/printouts, look through my computer for
relevant files, confirm sources in FTM & Ancestry, and build new source citations
and documents.
One thing I did realize in this process is that when you
attach media to a source, FTM allows you to link to existing media or to copy
the media into FTM.  I was inconsistent
in my approach.  I did both.  I found that over the years where I linked to
existing files the linkage was often broken. 
I know that copying it into FTM duplicates the file and my “duplicate
file finder” will spit out long lists of duplicates, but, it will be worth
doing so in the future.
After I cleaned up my sources for Ida, I did some new
research and found several items regarding Ida’s early marriages. 
– – – – – – – – – – – – – 

Bio – Ida Mae Barber (1874-1953)

Ida Mae Barber was born on March 24, 1874, in Michigan, the
first of two daughters of Franklin (Frank) and Sarah Blackhurst Barber.

Albion College, founded in 1835, 
would have been a influence on
 young Ida’s upbringing.
Woodcut in the Public Domain (via Wikimedia)
She grew up in Albion, Calhoun County, Michigan, which is a
small town about 100 miles west of Detroit which is the home to Albion College. In the 1880 Census she is six years
old living with her parents and her younger sister Eva.
I believe that sometime in 1892 Ida married John
Montran.  John is identified by name
several times and when Ida marries this second time she indicates that she had
been married before and that her name was Ida Barber Montrani.  The “Montrani” name is new in my research (I
had always looked for Montran and Montram previously) so, it gives me a new area
of research.) I had long believed that Ida had Madonna out of wedlock, but now
I suspect that she actually did marry John.
Ida’s daughter, Madonna, 
was born 20 Feb 1893.
Ida married her second husband, Max E. Fisher on 21 May 1897
in Detroit Michigan. The wedding was performed by Fred E. DeGaw, J. P.  and the witnesses were Frederick Mullau and
Herman Schcontt, both of Detroit. 
According to the marriage records, Ida was from Albion and Max was from
Detroit so their being married in Detroit makes sense.
Oddly enough, the 1900 Census shows Max, Ida, and Madonna
Fisher living at 374 Third Street. Manistee, Michigan.  I say oddly because Manistee is on the
opposite side of the state from Detroit; it’s on the coast of Lake Michigan. Google Maps does not
have street views of Manistee so I can’t tell if where they lived is still
there.  Also, Google Maps doesn’t
indicate the address in Manistee but rather that 374 Third Street is across
Manistee Lake in East Lake. 
The former Essex County Courthouse, built in 1855
it is where Ida & Joseph would have been married.
Photo by C Hanchey via Flickr – Some rights reserved.

Her husband, Max, apparently died because Ida married Jos
(Joseph) A Holdsworth in Essex, Ontario, Canada on 16 Aug 1904.  Essex is a small town about 20 miles across
the river from Detroit. The marriage information indicates that Holdsworth was
from Minneapolis.  The record shows Ida
as a “ditto” for where she lived, so it may be that she spent some time in
Minneapolis before they were married.  
The record also indicates that she was a widow.  (I’d like to find a death record for Max to
confirm that.)

Ida divorced Holdsworth before the 1910 census was taken in
April.  In the 1910 census, Ida was the
head of the household with 17 year-old daughter Madonna and her 62 year-old
mother Sarah Barber living with her.  It
appears that she wasn’t working but Madonna was a saleswoman at a dry goods
store.  Living with them was a “boarder,”
Harvey Knight. They lived at 418 Clay Ave, near Russell Street.  Detroit renumber many of its streets a few
years later so it is difficult to determine if the building they lived in is
still there.  Most likely not, The
intersection of where Clay and Russell would meet is now taken by the Chrysler
Freeway (I75).
Ida and Harvey Watson Knight were married on 27 Aug 1910 in Detroit.  It is interesting to note that the marriage
performed by Justice Fred E DeGaw, the same person who performed her
marriage  to Max Fisher. Frank G Schilling
and Winnifred Andrews both of Detroit as witnesses.
Ida & Harvey moved to new home at 628 Lawndale in
1914.  It is assumed that they built the
home and/or were the first owners.   
Harvey Milton Knight
died at 10 months from
mercury dichloride. 
Ida and Harvey’s only child together, Harvey Milton Knight,
was born on 20 November 1915.  Sadly,
Harvey Milton died at 10 months of age from accidental poisoning of mercury
dichloride. Oral history indicated that Milton died from getting a poison from
under the sink and ingesting it. His story is a reminder that children need to
be protected from access to dangerous chemicals.
In 1917, Ida’s only sibling, sister Eva, died from
tuburculous.  Now, Eva was married to Adelbert
Goff and lived in Farmington, MI.  Ida’s
grandchildren recall visiting an “Uncle Del” when they went to Walled Lake in
the 1930s and 1940s.  Farmington would
have been about a half-mile off the highway to Walled Lake.  Both of Ida’s grandchildren assumed that
“Uncle Del” was just a friend that was called “Uncle.”  I believe A-DEL-bert was “Uncle Del” as location,
names, and oral history all fit.
In 1918, Harvey registered for the draft.  That document shows still living at 628
Lawndale.
The 1920 census finds Ida and Harvey living along at the
Lawndale house.  Daughter Madonna is on
the road in the vaudeville comedy show “Chin Chin.” However, Madonna is listed
in the Census living in an apartment in New York with her widowed grandmother,
Sarah.
1456 Lawndale Today
Screenshot courtesy Google Maps
In February of 1923, Madonna, now “Donna” registers a song
with Variety.  In that registration she
indicates her address as 1456 Lawndale. 
I was at first confused by that as it is unusual for people to move  eight blocks up the street, particularly from
a new (only 9 years old at that time) home. 
A comparison of neighbors showed that the Knights had the same neighbors
in the 1920 and the 1930 censuses. Without a doubt, they didn’t move rather the
street was renumbered to fit a larger system sometime between 1920 and 1923. 
In 1930, the 47 year-old Ida was still living at 1456
Lawndale with her husband, Harvey. Ida and Harvey remained in that house until
Harvey’s death in May of 1942.  The 68
year-old Ida would have been left alone, except that her 14 year-old grandson
came to live with her and help out.
Marker for Knight Family
Harvey & Ida (Milton is on right side)
Photo by Don Taylor via Find a Grave
Ida died of an acute
coronary thrombosis at her home of nearly 40 years on 13 Oct 1953.  She was buried with her husband Harvey Watson
Knight and her son Harvey Milton in Plot 154, Oak Ridge Section, Woodmere Cemetery
in Detroit
Because this is my mother’s mother’s mother I carry Ida’s as well as her mother, Sarah Blackhurst, and her mother, Fanny Taylor’s Mitochondrial
DNA.  My sister’s daughter is the only
person who will carry their mtDNA (Haplogroup T2b) on to future generations.

Discover yourself at 23andMe
       [Disclaimer]

Areas for New Research

Search for Montrani instead of Montran in the usual places.
Search harder for Montran – Barber marriage records.
Research what may have been at 374 Third Street, Manistee.
Research actual date for street renumbering in Detroit.

Sources:

Ancestry.Com – Census Records 1880, 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930,
& 1940.
Ancestry.Com – World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918,
Ancestry.Com – Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1801-1928 – Jos
A Holdsworth – Ida Fisher.
Ancestry.Com – Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1801-1928
Family Search – Michigan, Marriages, 1868-1925 – Harvey Knight
Family Search – Michigan, Marriages, 1868-1925 – Max E Fisher
Michigan, Department Of Heath , Certificate of Death, Ida Mae
Knight. Wayne county, Michigan, Detroit. (Personal copy in my possession)
Michigan, Department Of Heath , Certificate of Death (In my
possession).

Social Security Application – Donna Montran Kees, Form SS-5  (Personal copy of document)