Mary Elizabeth (Manning) Brown’s Mother – Part 4 of 6

Could it be Nelly Nellie Burton?

Brown-Mannin(g)Line
By Don Taylor

Photo of Don Taylor with cat Nasi.Intro

I previously concluded that Sarah Jane Garvin and Mary A. could not be my 2nd great-grandmother. However, other researchers believe Mary Elizabeth Mannin(g)[i] Brown’s mother is one of three other names.

  • Nelly Nellie Burton (1863-1949)
  • Lisa J. Mannin (1861-___)
  • Eliza Jane Fannin (1861-1882)

In Part 4 of this series, I’ll examine the evidence that Mary E Mannin’s mother was Nelly Nellie Burton A.


One hundred thirty-one public trees refer to Mary Elizabeth Manning, who married Arthur Durwood Brown. Four trees suggest her mother is Nelly Nellie Burton (1863-1949. None of the trees have any sources for facts. As such, there isn’t anything for me to analyze.

Conclusion

This is probably a great time to mention again that copying someone else’s tree to your tree is typically a bad idea. One person’s error is copied repeatedly, making it look like a fact. One error in a tree can make DNA Matches suggest wrong pedigrees. Other people’s trees can be an excellent source for hints. They provide things for you to investigate, analyze, and determine if they apply to your ancesto. What facts does the source indicate. I have a rule, every fact I have needs a source for that information. It is only speculation if I don’t have a source citation supporting the fact.

I am confident that Nelly Burton is not my 2nd great-grandmother. Nellie died in 1949 long after Mary E (Manning) Brown’s mother died, according to Family Oral History.[ii]


Endnotes

[i] Mannin and Manning are used interchangeably in various documents. I try to use the spelling used in a particular document when quoted. Occasionally, Mannen, Mannan, and Mannon are also used as the spelling is typically based upon what the recorder of the document believed they heard.

[ii] As a child I heard stories that Grandma Brown’s mother died while Grandma Brown was a young child. She lived with Tommy and Mary Jones for a while and with her grandfather Enoch because she was orphaned. This oral history is clearly in conflict with the notion her mother died in 1949.

Mary Elizabeth (Manning) Brown’s Mother – Part 6 of 6

Can DNA Help?

Brown-Mannin(g)Line
By Don Taylor

Photo of Don Taylor with cat Nasi.I’ve been unsuccessful in finding any information regarding my great-grandmother’s mother, Eliza Jane Fannin(g). I’m not 100% convinced that is her name. But, continuing my investigation, my next step is to look and see if DNA testing will help. In the past, I’ve found DNA test results opened up discovering my biological father and my sister’s biological father. Two DNA tests can be helpful—Autosomal and Mitochondrial.

Autosomal

Image of DNAI tested with Ancestry and 23 & Me during my efforts to determine my biological father. I also uploaded my results to FamilyTreeDNA and GEDMatch.

Ancestry provides a tool that allows you to group individuals that you share the same ancestor with. In my case, it is easy to divide the matches I have into four groups based on my grandparents. The problem with Ancestry DNA is that the relationships rely upon a person’s tree. So, if they have Eliza Fannin, she will show up as a common ancestor. If they have Sarah Garvin as the mother of Mary Brown, she’ll show up as the common ancestor. So basically, I can determine if Mary (Manning) Brown is a common ancestor but can’t discriminate between her mother being Eliza or anyone else.

In looking at my DNA Matches, I found one match, N231, with a tree that indicated Phoebe’s mother was Eliza Fannin, and her parents were James Garvin and Sophia Thompson.

Name Via Common Ancestors Comments
N231 Phoebe John & Eliza (Fannin) Manning James Garvin &
Sophia Thompson

The match doesn’t help, but it is interesting to note (See Part 1 in this series – “Could it be Sarah Jane Garvin?”)

The bottom line is using Autosomal DNA test results won’t help in identifying the name of Mary (Manning) Brown’s mother because doing so relays upon other people’s trees which may be incorrect.

Mitochondrial DNA

A mother passes on mitochondrial DNA to her children. So boys have their mother’s mtDNA, but only girls can pass the mtDNA on to their children. So, Mary and Phoebe Manning received their mtDNA from their mother, who received it from her mother, and so forth. That means that any direct female descendants and their children would carry the mtDNA.

Mary (Manning) Brown had 12 children, 5 were girls.[i]

    1. Victoria – Had six children; only 1 was a girl.
      1. M___[ii]
    2. Cora – Had four girls.
      1. Beatrice
      2. E___
      3. Jo___
      4. Ju__)
    3. Dorothy (died as a child)
    4. Delores—Had eight children, six of them girls
      1. B___
      2. Sharon
      3. Patricia
      4. S___
      5. B___
      6. D___
    5. Nettie – Had five children, 2 of them girls
      1. E___
      2. (FNU)[iii]

Phoebe (Manning) Richmond had eight children; 2 were girls.

    1. Estella – had five daughters.
      1. Marjorie
      2. Mildred
      3. Meretta
      4. Hazel
      5. Phoebe
    2. Mahala – had four girls
      1. A___
      2. M___
      3. I___
      4. G___

It is possible that mtDNA test results could provide new insight into that line of ancestors. If you are the child of any of these people (or that person), you carry the mtDNA of Mary & Phoebe’s mother. I would love to hear if you have done an mtDNA test and what your test results and matches show. Genealogical mtDNA tests are only available from FamilyTreeDNA.[iv]


Conclusion

I don’t believe autosomal DNA testing can provide any clarity in determining the mother of Mary (Manning) Brown. It is unlikely that mtDNA tests will provide clarity in this identification, but I believe it is possible.

My next step in determining Mary (Manning) Brown’s mother is to do a “deep dive” into her life. Many new sources are available since I looked at her eight years ago that I should explore. So, I’ll begin further research by putting together a research plan using dates and locations.


Endnotes

[i] These names, numbers, and relationships are tentative. I have encountered the information as collateral information and have not researched these family lines personally.

[ii] Names with an initial and a underline are individuals who may be living (I have no death information for them). Note endnote i above.

[iii] FNU is an abbreviation for “First Name Unknown.” I have evidence that the individual exists but I do not have the persons first name.

[iv] I anticipate FamilyTreeDNA will have a sale on their mtDNA a little before Mother’s Day. Watch for it. DISCLAIMER: Several years ago, I was an affiliate in the Family Tree DNA advertising program. I am no longer an affiliate and will receive no reward for if you purchase any tests or services from FamilyTreeDNA.

Mary Elizabeth (Manning) Brown’s Mother – Part 3 of 6

Could it be Mary A?

Brown-Mannin(g)Line
By Don Taylor

Photo of Don Taylor with cat Nasi.I previously concluded that Sarah Jane Garvin could not be my 2nd great-grandmother. (See: Could it be Sarah Jane Garvin – Part 2.) However, other researchers believe Mary Elizabeth Mannin(g)[i] Brown mother is one of four different names.

    • Mary A. [Mannin] (1851-1877)
    • Nelly Nellie Burton (1863-1949)
    • Lisa J. Mannin (1861-___)
    • Eliza Jane Fannin (1861-1882)

In Part 3 of this series, I’ll look at the evidence that Mary E Mannin’s mother was Mary A.


One hundred thirty-one public trees refer to Mary Elizabeth Manning, who married Arthur Durwood Brown. Three trees suggest her mother is Mary A. Mannin (1851-1877); two others suggest Mary A. Mullins (1851-1885).

1880 Census – Finds James Mannin, his wife Mary A, and two children, four-year-old Mary E and one-year-old Floyd living in Hamptons Mill, Morgan County, Kentucky. There is no evidence that James is John William “Joe” Mannin.

1900 Census – Starting in the 1900 Census and records after that, Mary Elizabeth’s husband and children are consistent with my record sources. Only ascribing the 1880 census and the mother “Mary A” appears to be inconsistent with my records.

One tree that suggests Mary A. Mullins is Mary’s mother also provides a different spouse, children, and death inconsistent with the other known Mary Elizabeth (Manning) Brown’s life. So, this tree uses the same 1880 Census record as above but ascribes the record to a different, and likely correct, Mary E Manning, not my great-grandmother.

Next, I’ll consider Nellie Burton as a candidate to be Mary Elizabeth Manning’s mother.


Conclusion

I am confident that Mary A Manning is not my 2nd great-grandmother. The cross-over is caused by several people linking a different Mary E Manning to my Mary Elizabeth Manning in the 1880 Census.


Endnotes

[i] Mannin and Manning are used interchangeably in various documents. I try to use the spelling used in a particular document when quoted. Occasionally, Mannen, Mannan, and Mannon are also used as the spelling is typically based upon what the recorder of the document believed they heard.

Mary Elizabeth (Manning) Brown’s Mother – Part 2 of 6

Could it be Sarah Jane Garvin? – Part 2

Brown-Mannin(g)Line
By Don Taylor

Photo of Don Taylor with cat Nasi.Information about my great-grandmother’s (Mary Elizabeth Mannin(g)[i] Brown) mother has been elusive. I believe her mother was Eliza Jane Fannin (1861-1882). Other researchers have indicated they believe Mary’s mother was Sarah Jane Garvin. Looking at other researchers’ trees, I could not find any record or source that shows Sarah was Mary’s mother (see “Could it be Sarah Jane Garvin – Part 1”). Because of that, I decided to see if I could find any evidence that Mary’s mother was Sarah rather than Eliza.

I began with all forty-some public trees that suggest Sarah as mother and the sources they reference. None of their sources included any documentation that supported that assertion. This article looks at the sources used in public Ancestry trees that refer to Sarah Jane Garvin, wife of John William Mannin(g), having a daughter Mary Elizabeth.

Other than information about her parents, sources from before the marriage of Sarah Jane Garvin and John William “Joe” Mannin are non-contributory. Other sources for Sarah include:

    • 1870 Census – John & Sarah Manning living in Mt. Olivet, Robertson County, Kentucky—John is 24 and Sarah is 27; they have no children.
    • 1880 Census – John and Lisa Mannin living in Pine Grove, Rowan County. John is 34, John’s wife Lisa is 19, and daughter Mary is 2.
    • Kentucky Death Records – Sarah J Garvin, born 1844, died 29 May 1877 in Carter County, KY.

The 1880 Census was taken on 1 June 1880. Sarah died months before Mary was born in April 1878 and couldn’t be her mother.

  • Several researchers provide evidence of John W Mannin and Sarah J Garvin getting married on 30 July 1868.

Conclusion

Sarah Jane Garvin cannot be the Mary Elizabeth Manning. Some researchers have indicated that Mary was born in 1876 rather than 1878. Mary would have been four during the 1880 Census if this were the case. Additionally, Mary’s sister Phoebe, born in 1881, could not be a full sister if Sarah was their mother.

I just can’t see how Sarah Jane Garvin could be the mother of Mary Elizabeth Mannin. If anyone has evidence indicating how this relationship could be true, I’d love to hear about it. Please comment below.[ii]

Follow-up – Plans

Other potential mothers for Mary Elizabeth Mannin include:

    • Mary A. [Mannin] (1851-1877)
    • Nelly Nellie Burton (1863-1949)
    • Lisa J. Mannin (1861-___)
    • Eliza Jane Fannin (1861-1882)

I’ll look at evidence/sources for Mary A. [Mannin] being Mary E’s mother next. Sometime in the future I’ll also briefly look at the DNA relationships and see if that can provide any illumination into Mary’s parentage.


Endnotes

[i] Mannin and Manning are used interchangeably in various documents. I try to use the spelling used in a particular document when quoted. Occasionally, Mannen, Mannan, and Mannon are also used as the spelling is typically based upon what the recorder of the document believed they heard.

[ii] When commenting, please indicate if the comment is intended to public or private.

Mary Elizabeth (Manning) Brown’s Mother – Part 1 of 6

Could it be Sarah Jane Garvin?

Brown-Mannin(g)Line
By Don Taylor

Photo of Don Taylor with cat Nasi.It has been nearly eight years since I wrote about my 2nd great-grandmother, Eliza Jane Fannin (1861-1882). Eliza’s parents have been a brick wall for me. In 2017, I thought I might have broken through, but further research convinced me that Eliza Jane Fannin’s parents were not Thomas & Cynthis Ellia (Ellis), as some researchers have suggested. After eight years, I decided it must be time to revisit Eliza Jane Fannin and see if new material may provide answers. Over the years, I have also improved my genealogical skills and my analysis of sources.

List of Grands

What I know (A review of my known sources to associated facts.)

1880 Census – John & Lisa J Mannin live in Pine Grove, Rowan County, Kentucky. The household consisted of:

  •             John Mannin,  age 34
  •             Lisa J Mannin, age 19
  •             Mary Mannin, age 2

What I think I know (Unsourced Facts) – Find sources!

Great-grandma Mary Brown, and her son, Grandpa Dick.

I didn’t have a good source for Mary Elizabeth Manning’s (1878-1882) mother being Eliza Jane Fannin, and Family Search suggests that Mary Elizabeth’s mother was Sarah Jane Garvin[i]. I need to review all my sources for Mary and see what documents refer to my great-grandmother’s mother’s name.

My Original Sources.

In 2001, I contacted Les Crider[ii] regarding information regarding my Grandfather, Dick Brown, and his mother, Mary Brown. Les was Mary Brown’s minister for many years.

    • He replied that Mary’s dad was John William Mannin.
    • Marys’ mother was Eliza Tolover.

In his email, he gave a caveat that he “Cannot promise it is accurate, but a starting place.”

Photo of Enoch Mannin
Enoch Mannin

Mary’s grandmother was Minerva (Tolliver) Mannin. Mary, Phoebe Jane, and Robert lived with her and Enoch Mannin during the 1885 Minnesota Census.

In 2005, I received a letter from my great-aunt, Delores (Brown) Pribbenow. She didn’t provide Mary’s mother’s name but did confirm that Mary had one sister, Phoebe, and one half-brother, Robert Manning.

So, I’m not sure where I came up with Eliza Fannin’s name. I have a couple of suspicions. I suspect it came from someone else’s tree, and “Fannin” was a corruption of “Mannin,” which would be Mary’s mother’s married name. I also suspect that “Tolover” was confused with Mary’s grandmother’s maiden name, Tolliver.

So, I decided to start anew by researching Mary Elizabeth (Manning) Brown’s mother.

FamilySearch sources linked to Mary Elizabeth (Manning) Brown.

  • 1880 Census – Already have.
  • 1885 Census – Already have.
  • 1900 Census – Already have.
  • 1910 Census – Already have.
  • 1920 Census – Already have.
  • 1928 – Death Record for Mary’s husband, Arthur D. Brown – Already have.
  • 1930 Census – Already have.
  • 1940 Census – Already have.
  • 1971 – Mary’s son, Clyde L Brown, death records – Already have.
  • 1971 to 1998 – Three entries in the Minnesota Death Index confirm her maiden name of Manning.

Ancestry Sources

Ancestry has 131 Public Trees that refer to Mary Elizabeth Mannin, wife of Arthur Durwood Brown. These trees suggest five different mothers for Mary.

    • Sarah Jane Garvin (1843-1877)
    • Lisa J. Mannin (1861-___)
    • Eliza Jane Fannin (1861-1882)
    • Mary A. [Mannin] (1851-1877)
    • Nelly Nellie Burton (1863-1949)

I’ve long thought that Eliza Jane Fannin and Lisa J Mannin were the same person. However, I’ve not heard the other names before, so I’m interested in what sources folks have for these different names for Mary’s mother. I’ll also briefly look at the DNA relationships and see if that can provide any illumination into Mary’s parentage.

Mary Elizabeth Mannin, daughter of John William “Joe” Mannin (1846-1888) and Sarah Jane Garvin (1843-1877) – 12 Records.

    1. 1880 Census – Mary Mannin, the 2-year-old daughter of John and Lisa J Mannin, living in Pine Grove, Rowan County, Kentucky.
    2. 1900 Census – Mary Brown – No Mention of her parents.
    3. 1910 Census – Mary Brown – No Mention of her parents.
    4. 1920 Census – Mary Brown – No Mention of her parents.
    5. 1930 Census – Mary Brown – No Mention of her parents.
    6. 1940 Census – Mary Brown – No Mention of her parents.
    7. Minnesota Death Index – Mary E Brown (17 Apr 1876 – 8 May 1883) mother’s maiden name is Fanning.
    8. Social Security Death Index – Mary Brown (No Relationships shown).
    9. Find-a-Grave – Mary Elizabeth Manning Brown. No mention of her parents.
    10. Social Security Applications & Claims Index – Mary’s son, Clyde Leroy Brown’s record.
    11. Social Security Applications & Claims Index – Mary’s daughter, Nettie Mae Briggs’s record.
    12. Social Security Applications & Claims Index – Mary’s son, Charles William Brown’s record.

So, other than other peoples’ Ancestry trees, there appear to be no records indicating Sarah Jane Gavin was Mary’s mother from the first researcher’s sources. Instead, two sources, the 1880 Census and Mary’s death record, suggest Mary’s mother’s name was Lisa J Fanning.

The next researcher I looked at had ten sources. Nine of them are the same as the previous researcher. They had one additional source, which I previously had.

  • The 1885 Minnesota Census Reports that Enoch and Menorvi Mannan live in Stearns County, Minnesota, with three children. Robert, Mary, and Jane. There is no mention of her parents; however, it corroborates Delores’ family history letter indicating that Phoebe Jane was Mary’s sister and Roberts was a half-brother.[iii]
  • The next researcher has three sources. Two of them are the same as previous researchers.
  • The third source is a 1917 wedding announcement between Mary’s daughter, Victoria, and Denzil Collett.
  • The next researcher has eight sources. Seven of them are the same as previous researchers.
  • The eighth source is OneWorldTree which is no longer in use.[iv]

There are no additional sources on any remaining Ancestry Public trees for Mary Elizabeth Mannin(g) that identify her mother as Sarah Jane Gavin.

Conclusion

Other researchers did not have any sources that I didn’t have already in reviewing the references. Also, two of those sources appear to conflict with Sarah Jane Gavin being Mary’s mother. I’m not ready to say Sarah Jane isn’t Mary’s mother, but I know of two findings that suggest someone else is Mary’s mother—Lisa J Fanning.

Follow-up – Plans

I’ll look at Sarah Jane Gavin and see if there appear to be any sources that explain why other researchers believe she is the mother of Mary Brown.


ENDNOTES

[i] The likelihood that my great-grandmother’s entries on FamilySearch being correct is low. It suggests that Mary had a sister, Sophia and doesn’t include Mary’s known sister Phoebe.

[ii] Leslie M. Crider of Motley passed away on January 20th, 2018 at the St. Cloud Hospital at the age of 84.See his obituary at https://memorials.taylorfunerals.com/Crider-Leslie+%27Les%27/3405936/obituary.php for more information.

[iii] In the fall of 1882, Enoch led a group of 9 families from Kentucky to Minnesota including his wife Minerva and himself. The surnames in the move were: Barnett, Bryant, Fugate, Horn, Jones, & Mannin. Please see Biography – Enoch Mannin (1823-1907).

[iv] The user-submitted family tree databases called OneWorldTree was discontinued by Ancestry in late 2013. The discontinued One World Tree has been replaced by Ancestry.com’s much improved Family Trees, a much improved database that contains family trees submitted to Ancestry by users.